But now for the time being, lets get back to my scenario here...and discuss things along this line now. Firstly, as far as my decision about "specializing" to an MBA from Medicine, and particularly from Surgery are concerned, well here’s what my decision is all about, and the following is the true and real scenario. I am still in the UK, and as i said earlier, will be appearing for the MRCS part-2 exams this January, and most importantly of all, I am fascinated by the science of Surgery, and I am sure that I will always want to learn more and more about the skills of Surgery. And I’m sure I will. And how am I able to do that? Here’s how. Simply because I have earned the "right" to hold a scalpel in my hand, or a suture & needle and use it to save someone’s life...and that’s cos I have worked hard to become a doctor, without which learning Surgery would have been a forbidden territory for me. And whats more...I will ALWAYS remain a doctor, no matter where I am, and what I do further on in life, and nothing on earth can change this fact, and neither will I let anything change this fact. And so, after completing my MRCS , fully, I will also become a qualified specialized surgeon...and so this is something I will do as well, cos as I said, Surgery fascinates me, and I will not let go of it!
But what I want to do here is break away, somewhat, from this closed bubble in which most doctors live for the rest of their lives, simply cos they think that they don’t have other options as their field of study is too specialized (you docs doing, or having done an MBA, will know better, i'm sure). Who said that a doctor HAS to spend the rest of his living days working as a doctor, or for that matter...an engineer has to be an engineer for the rest of his life...or a lawyer has to be a lawyer forever. We human beings are capable of remarkable things...and WE DOCTORS are naturally the more intelligent breed than the average population, aren’t we? (anyone with objections to this statement of mines, plz feel free to speak out!) (no offence meant to anyone, obviously). Then my whole point is that, why don’t we expand our frontiers, and use this intelligence to greater use, for our self-improvement? That’s all I am saying, and that is why, I am thinking on these lines, and taking the liberty of writing this posting here. I as an individual, feel that, I am multi-talented...and I also feel that almost all of us out there (yes, I mean us docs), who have been able to see through the rigors, and processes of an extremely tough entrance exam, who have seen through a 5.5 yr intense course at medical college, and who are still giving it their best, to move forward in their professions...well, I feel that, its not only me who is multi-talented...but its all these doctors out there who possess immense talents like myself. But due to the circumstances, mindsets, and society issues, are unable to put these talents to use. Plz read on...
My thoughts are like this. Since I feel that, being doctors, we are multi-talented, I want to put these dormant talents to use, and feel that all doctors should do the same, as well.
My particular area of interest is setting up a business in property investments, and also starting a media group, and channel of my own, too, which will be exclusive to health, and Medicine programmes. We have Animal Planet...we have news channels...we have movie channels...but do we have an exclusive medical channel out there? No and I intend to create one. Big ambitions, one might say, but they are honest ambitions, I must say...and I want to see these ambitions turn to reality. I also realize that, in order to go about doing these successfully, I will need some kind of specialized education which is different from learning how to use a laparoscope to perform a cholecystectomy...probably some kind of business/management related education is something that will fit the bill here. And that’s why I have on my mind something on the lines of an MBA . But wait...remember that we are doctors! RIGHT? And what did I say we are, as a result of being doctors? MULTI-TALENTED. That means we can easily be, and do 2, or maybe even 3 things at the same time...and unlike being a “jack-of-all-trades, master-of none”, we can be a master of more than one, cos we are the breed the world calls DOCTORS!!! And just in case if anyone has any doubts about the abilities of us docs, well, I am then just gonna have to prove it to you all out there that, we are capable, (just like all my yet-to-be-doctor-friends-out-here doing an MBA have already proven), and the 1st step in proving that, would be to prove that I AM CAPABLE.
So here’s a thought which I have thought about in detail...but which I haven’t worked on yet, in details, cos I am presently focusing on my MRCS exam on 16th January. After that, I will start my “homework” in this direction, FULL SWING!!! Read on...
To all you doctors who are still just doctors.....have you guys ever thought of, or wondered about those individuals who get top ranks in various exams like GMAT, CAT, etc, and in doing so, end up in some of the top institutions of the world, like Harvard, Stanford, London school of business ,and of course our very own IIM's too? Haven’t you ever privately and secretly said to yourselves, about these individuals…"They are THERE & we are HERE, after all we’ve done and been through…that’s just not fair". At some point of time or the other, you possibly might have. Well, there is this general perception that these MBA-individuals are the “cream” of the brains and society, and due to this perception (which is largely true as well), they also demand some of the highest paid salaries, and some of the most respectful jobs. Read on to hear my idea...
...well, I got a bit distracted there for a while, and so lets get back to telling you what I was telling you...about us being multi-talented, our capabilities....and about the fact of me proving it to everyone including myself, that we doctors are the BESTEST. So here’s the point. What’s so special about those guys getting their MBA's from the “top-10 business schools”, and getting paid exorbitantly? And why do we have to spend our living days hearing society talk about them big-shot MBA's being brilliant, super, talented individuals, when this so-called “society” actually benefits a lot more from us doctors directly, as far as “themselves”, and their biologies are concerned...and when actually these MBA's play very little direct role in their lives? Well, enough of questions, for now…I’ll give you a chance to answer them yourselves. As of now, lemme tell you what I intend to do, or at least have thought about doing, really, really soon. Read on plz...
...since my particular ambitions later on in life are about property investments, and on owning a TV channel, they’ll naturally require a thorough learning and understanding on business and management. And truly speaking, our medical education has left us as total illiterates, as far as finance, accounting, management and entrepreneurship is concerned, and i feel that some good amount of formal education in this direction will help me turn my future plans into action. And of course to start any successful business, a good capital is neceassry, or i should say...a good capital makes things simpler. And just being a doc will take away at least a decade, if not more, of my life, for my being able to achieve such a capital target...plus due to the professional demands, medicine leaves us with very little time to even think of any other ideas in life. So thats the basic idea about my MBA plans...and so I have my eyes on an MBA ,and that too, a top-notch MBA . But here’s the POINT. I am not going to sit and watch that “cream of the brains and society” salutation go to the non-docs only………….and so here’s what I am going to do……………. I am going to go on to get an admission in an MBA course from among the top-10 business schools in the world, and will do whatever it takes to top score in the GMAT/ CAT. After that, besides bothering about my property investments, I will get that international TV channel up and running (where as you might have guessed, there’ll be lots of Surgery shown!!!), just for us docs, and the rest of the world. At the same time, I will continue to learn, and specialize my skills in the practice of Surgery ,cos it’s something I love doing, and will forever love doing. Now I know that all this sounds larger-than-life, and overtly-ambitious, and many of you might be saying that this guy called simba_smiles has gone crazy! But trust me, fellow doctors, I hereby declare to all of you out here...that I will prove it that I am capable of achieving all this...and more...cos after all, its all about self belief, and I know that I have an enormous amount of this self-belief. And I’m sure you all do, too. It’s just a matter of time before you all, and I myself see me making all this happen for real. So make sure you guys keep a really good track of what I’m upto, in the near future…just for records!
Well, all said and done, everything that i have mentioned above are the things in life which i wanna do with all my heart, but since i am a newbie here, am still submerged in the world of surgery, and since i dont know a single doctor-MBA personally, i am naturally at the disadavantage of not knowing any appropriate people in my professional circle, with whom i can discuss this option. And so, i could really do with some advice and suggestions from one and all out here...and better still, from those with some personal experience on MBA's for docs, and wat prospects they hav in todays market, and wat options are available after passing out. And i obviously dont wanna do it from the hordes of MBA schools found in every lane nowadays, but wanna do it from somewhere really worthwhile, and though i dont hav much info about the CAT exam, i hav looked into details of GMAT, as i would probably like to do the MBA here at London Business School, or among the top-10 US B-schools. Yeah, yeah, i also hav done my homework, and know that it requires a GMAT score of around 700, references, experience, etc, etc, but thats just about all i know, cos as i said, i dont know a single soul with whom i can discuss this "off-beat" topic, as far as doctors are concerned. Another thing is the finance/scholarship options, cos MBA programmes in some of the top schools, including london business school, cost around £.40,000, which i think is crazy!!! Anyway, all these websites and MBA forums like mba-forums, and this one here, do say spending that amount at a world leading B-school is worth it, as you'll get your moneys worth back really soon, though i dunno if all this is that true or not.
Well, that’s a lot of details from my side. Will write more later, after my MRCS exams are over. But i’d love to hear from you guys out there, and welcome any forms of support or criticism regarding my view-points here. And i did notice 3 of you and your postings here...and was impressed too...namely Ashima, Gandalfthegrey, and Doc_charming23...and so will be particularly looking forward to hearing from you too. So please do think about my scenario, and let me know of your opinions, and plz do make it a point to air your comments, all you docs & non-docs, MBA's & non-MBA's, cos it will only help me see both sides of the coin more clearly...and I need to be able to do that, before I set foot on this adventure of mines. I call this an ADVENTURE cos of the following. I’m sure that our lives are long enough, and our minds are talented & powerful enough, to experience more than one adventure in this life-time of ours. We doctors have all been fortunate enough to experience one of these magnificent adventures...in the form of Medicine . (very few on planet earth are fortunate enough to experience this vast and immense adventure called Medicine, and knowing all about the Human Body). I’m just trying to experience some more. Well, that’s all for now, and all the best to all of you, and keep smiling!!!
Before I leave, I just want to add a line which I had heard in a movie or something, and which really means a lot, if you look at it from a very strong and deep perspective.....
….."What makes a man a man? Is it his origins, or the way he starts things, or where he lives, or what he does? No. IT’S THE CHOICES HE MAKES. Not how he starts things, but how he finishes them."
Friday, January 09, 2009
DOCTORS..ENGINEERS...LAWYERS...MBAs READ THIS...PART 1
Hello everybody,
You can all call me simba_smiles. Before i start off my sickeningly long narration, lemme give you a tiny introduction about the guy i am. I'm a total newbie out here, and this is my very 1st posting...which i am doing after spending almost a week reading through different forums out here...and after realizing and discovering only a short while ago, that there actually is a whole thread exclusively for and by the doctors out here! (thats something which brought a huge smile to my face). Anyway, coming back to that intro of mine, well, i'm 27, did my MBBS from Calcutta, finished my internship in 2004, then worked for an year at Apollo Gleneagles Hospital, Calcutta, and then came over to London to appear for the PLAB exams. Will be appearing for PLAB Part 2 exam soon, and will be appearing for the MRCS Part-2 exams in January 2006. So wat on earth is a guy like me doing on an MBA forum, you guys might be asking...right? Well, just in case you havent figured that out yet...the answer is that, i am PRESENTLY in a very important decision making stage of my life now, and so needed to get in touch with a few MBBS-MBA's to sort things out. And so thats why i have barged in.
And oh yeah, here's a short description of my medical ambitions, so you'll get a clearer idea as to wat i'm doing out here. I had a dream to become a great general surgeon, and later on either a cosmetic, or a minimal-invasive surgeon. My dad is a great laparoscopic surgeon, and so was my grand-dad a doctor. But now due to certain circumstances, which I shall be mentioning in detail in this posting, now I want to be different, do different, and step aside from "standard protocol". I want to end a pattern of "insult" to our once-upon-a-time GREAT profession. I am therefore looking at a slightly alternative career prospect. And some of the primary reasons as to why i have 2nd thoughts about pursuing a career in medicine for the rest of my living days are as follows:
I remember that, when I and my friends had cleared the medical joint entrance exam, we all went crazy with joy, and praised ourselves for the big achievement. Little did we realise what uncertainties lay ahead...
It was a 5.5 years gruelling course, which demanded many years and lots of hard work. And with each university exam of the MBBS course we cleared, we felt that greater glory, and that feeling of almost "being there". In the meantime, all our non-medico friends, and relatives would look up to us, and tell us how lucky we were to being to-be-docs. A combination of all this made us feel great! Little did we realise what uncertainties lay ahead...
Then it was that almost final moment of glory. We passed our final MBBS exam, and we all enthusiastically expressed the same feeling from within saying..."I’ve done it!” Little did we realise what uncertainties lay ahead...
Finally, it was that ultimate glory, the moment of our lives, the stamp of authority, when after our internship we stood in that black cloak, received our certificates, and read the oath. Boy! Were we happy that day? But, again, little did we realise what uncertainties lay ahead...
This is what we realise, after all these moments of immense joy, that we are nobody in today’s world. Just try telling a person/patient that you have an MBBS degree, which you got after clearing one of the toughest exams like the JEE's, then worked hard to clear 4.5 years of fat books, tough exams and viva's, and then went through a back-breaking internship year, where we had to give duties as long as 36 hrs at a stretch. That person/patient will think "just a simple MBBS"!!! Now how is that going to feel.....huh? They want MD's, MS's, etc., etc., or else we are nobody. What can be more unfair, and insulting? So here's what we all do to counter that insult. I'm not finished yet... Read on...
We battle it out to take on even a tougher exam, which sometime we try to clear for years on end....the post-graduate entrance exam! Some of us take the PLABs, USMLE's, AMC's, Royal college exams and what not. We spend more brain power, more time, more money, all in an effort to be able to regain what was so mercilessly taken from us...our respect and our recognition as being really nice, efficient, honest and hardworking guys. There is a reward waiting for us at the end of it all!
And here are the rewards:
a) You work like crazy from early morning to late night.
b) You see that other professions around us are getting paid loads more with half the effort. And if you want to equal that pay-level, then you have to leave home an two hours earlier in the morning, and come back two hours later, trying to squeeze in more private practice/surgeries, etc.
c) You have no family or social life left. It makes you a mechanical being.
d) You have no time left for anything else in your life, and whatever money you earn is spent by your wife, kids, etc. because you don’t even have the time to spend it.
e) Do you get that respect? Well, how can you when you have a million consumer protection acts looming down on you for the slightest unintentional mistake. You face disgusting protests and abuses when miracles don’t save a patient, even though you have devoted yourself a billion percent to save a patient.
f) You being bossed around by managers and administrators, and being told what to do by them, and even getting less pay than them. When most of them are not even docs!
g) You see that even in the so called “developed countries” like here in UK, where I am now, that as far as respect goes, the doctors, all these hardworking devoted doctors, are at the bottom of the ladder. They have to be meek-health-providers to the patients, and it’s as if the patients and nurses and managers rule. They err, no problem, but if you err, all hell breaks loose. You make the tiniest of "mistakes", as in, talk in a bit of a grumpy way to a patient/nurse, simply because you have had a long and tiring day, and haven’t had the time to even grab a bite and the patients end up complaining that the doctor misbehaved and what does the doctor get? An official warning!
h) Even back in India, doctors just try and earn an honest living by working that extra bit harder and they are branded as scrupulous or dishonest who are using their profession to make money! How many people on planet earth are not into a profession to make money? One percent, I’d say. Yet the respect and the nobleness of this profession have been thrown out of the window, and instead replaced with sickening accusations!
You can all call me simba_smiles. Before i start off my sickeningly long narration, lemme give you a tiny introduction about the guy i am. I'm a total newbie out here, and this is my very 1st posting...which i am doing after spending almost a week reading through different forums out here...and after realizing and discovering only a short while ago, that there actually is a whole thread exclusively for and by the doctors out here! (thats something which brought a huge smile to my face). Anyway, coming back to that intro of mine, well, i'm 27, did my MBBS from Calcutta, finished my internship in 2004, then worked for an year at Apollo Gleneagles Hospital, Calcutta, and then came over to London to appear for the PLAB exams. Will be appearing for PLAB Part 2 exam soon, and will be appearing for the MRCS Part-2 exams in January 2006. So wat on earth is a guy like me doing on an MBA forum, you guys might be asking...right? Well, just in case you havent figured that out yet...the answer is that, i am PRESENTLY in a very important decision making stage of my life now, and so needed to get in touch with a few MBBS-MBA's to sort things out. And so thats why i have barged in.
And oh yeah, here's a short description of my medical ambitions, so you'll get a clearer idea as to wat i'm doing out here. I had a dream to become a great general surgeon, and later on either a cosmetic, or a minimal-invasive surgeon. My dad is a great laparoscopic surgeon, and so was my grand-dad a doctor. But now due to certain circumstances, which I shall be mentioning in detail in this posting, now I want to be different, do different, and step aside from "standard protocol". I want to end a pattern of "insult" to our once-upon-a-time GREAT profession. I am therefore looking at a slightly alternative career prospect. And some of the primary reasons as to why i have 2nd thoughts about pursuing a career in medicine for the rest of my living days are as follows:
I remember that, when I and my friends had cleared the medical joint entrance exam, we all went crazy with joy, and praised ourselves for the big achievement. Little did we realise what uncertainties lay ahead...
It was a 5.5 years gruelling course, which demanded many years and lots of hard work. And with each university exam of the MBBS course we cleared, we felt that greater glory, and that feeling of almost "being there". In the meantime, all our non-medico friends, and relatives would look up to us, and tell us how lucky we were to being to-be-docs. A combination of all this made us feel great! Little did we realise what uncertainties lay ahead...
Then it was that almost final moment of glory. We passed our final MBBS exam, and we all enthusiastically expressed the same feeling from within saying..."I’ve done it!” Little did we realise what uncertainties lay ahead...
Finally, it was that ultimate glory, the moment of our lives, the stamp of authority, when after our internship we stood in that black cloak, received our certificates, and read the oath. Boy! Were we happy that day? But, again, little did we realise what uncertainties lay ahead...
This is what we realise, after all these moments of immense joy, that we are nobody in today’s world. Just try telling a person/patient that you have an MBBS degree, which you got after clearing one of the toughest exams like the JEE's, then worked hard to clear 4.5 years of fat books, tough exams and viva's, and then went through a back-breaking internship year, where we had to give duties as long as 36 hrs at a stretch. That person/patient will think "just a simple MBBS"!!! Now how is that going to feel.....huh? They want MD's, MS's, etc., etc., or else we are nobody. What can be more unfair, and insulting? So here's what we all do to counter that insult. I'm not finished yet... Read on...
We battle it out to take on even a tougher exam, which sometime we try to clear for years on end....the post-graduate entrance exam! Some of us take the PLABs, USMLE's, AMC's, Royal college exams and what not. We spend more brain power, more time, more money, all in an effort to be able to regain what was so mercilessly taken from us...our respect and our recognition as being really nice, efficient, honest and hardworking guys. There is a reward waiting for us at the end of it all!
And here are the rewards:
a) You work like crazy from early morning to late night.
b) You see that other professions around us are getting paid loads more with half the effort. And if you want to equal that pay-level, then you have to leave home an two hours earlier in the morning, and come back two hours later, trying to squeeze in more private practice/surgeries, etc.
c) You have no family or social life left. It makes you a mechanical being.
d) You have no time left for anything else in your life, and whatever money you earn is spent by your wife, kids, etc. because you don’t even have the time to spend it.
e) Do you get that respect? Well, how can you when you have a million consumer protection acts looming down on you for the slightest unintentional mistake. You face disgusting protests and abuses when miracles don’t save a patient, even though you have devoted yourself a billion percent to save a patient.
f) You being bossed around by managers and administrators, and being told what to do by them, and even getting less pay than them. When most of them are not even docs!
g) You see that even in the so called “developed countries” like here in UK, where I am now, that as far as respect goes, the doctors, all these hardworking devoted doctors, are at the bottom of the ladder. They have to be meek-health-providers to the patients, and it’s as if the patients and nurses and managers rule. They err, no problem, but if you err, all hell breaks loose. You make the tiniest of "mistakes", as in, talk in a bit of a grumpy way to a patient/nurse, simply because you have had a long and tiring day, and haven’t had the time to even grab a bite and the patients end up complaining that the doctor misbehaved and what does the doctor get? An official warning!
h) Even back in India, doctors just try and earn an honest living by working that extra bit harder and they are branded as scrupulous or dishonest who are using their profession to make money! How many people on planet earth are not into a profession to make money? One percent, I’d say. Yet the respect and the nobleness of this profession have been thrown out of the window, and instead replaced with sickening accusations!
Thursday, January 08, 2009
It takes Rs 1.7 crore to produce a single MBBS doctor at AIIMS
This is the finding of a first-of-its-kind study submitted by AIIMS' department of hospital administration to the dean recently. The figure includes both the direct (services of the faculty and stipend) and indirect (services of non-teaching personnel and furniture) costs incurred by the country's premier teaching hospital over the five-and-a-half-year period of the course.
According to the study `Determination of the cost of training of MBBS student at AIIMS' conducted under the supervision of Dr Shakti Gupta, (HoD), department of hospital administration at AIIMS, if computed using a traditional costing method, AIIMS spends Rs 31.31 lakh on every undergraduate student per year per course.
When calculated using the Time Driven Activity Based Costing method (TD-ABC), the study says that total costs incurred on one MBBS student comes out to be Rs 98 lakh per course.
"As against this, the annual fee of an MBBS student at AIIMS is Rs 850 per year that includes hostel and tuition fee,'' Dr Gupta told TOI.
What's worse, as an earlier study by the Media Study Group found, over 53% of students who pass out as doctors from AIIMS leave India to work abroad.
Of the 2,129 students who passed out in the first 42 batches of the MBBS programme at AIIMS -- from its inception in 1956 to 1997 -- the study team tracked down 1,477 doctors. Of them, 780 or 52.81% were found to be working abroad.
These stark figures made health minister A Ramadoss plead to students on Wednesday to stay back and work in the country. Addressing the annual AIIMS convocation that saw 376 degrees of which 50 were MBBS degrees being given out, Ramadoss said, "Please stay put in India. This country needs you very badly. You are the best in the world and your country faces an acute shortage of quality doctors.''
Even convocation chief guest Dr R K Pachauri echoed the same view. "If you (students) are looking at spiritual or professional satisfaction, then serving your own people in your own country, where you are needed the most, is the greatest gift you can get. The challenge is here and you will not regret the decision,'' Dr Pachauri said.
Dr Gupta had a solution to curb such brain drain. "Medical students who graduate from the Armed Forces Medical College in Pune have to serve in the Army for a minimum of five years or else they pay Rs 15 lakh to be allowed to practise in the private sector. AIIMS too should think of imposing such a clause where students have to sign a bond agreeing to work in India for a certain period of time after graduating from the institute,'' Dr Gupta said.
A recent Planning Commission report said India is short of six lakh doctors, 10 lakh nurses and two lakh dental surgeons. Indian doctors, however, form 5% of the medical workforce in developed countries. Almost 60,000 Indian physicians are working in countries like US, UK, Canada and Australia alone.
India has a dismal patient-doctor ratio. For every 10,000 Indians, there is only one doctor. In contrast, Australia has 249 doctors for every 10,000 people, Canada has 209, UK has 166 and US has 548.
According to the study `Determination of the cost of training of MBBS student at AIIMS' conducted under the supervision of Dr Shakti Gupta, (HoD), department of hospital administration at AIIMS, if computed using a traditional costing method, AIIMS spends Rs 31.31 lakh on every undergraduate student per year per course.
When calculated using the Time Driven Activity Based Costing method (TD-ABC), the study says that total costs incurred on one MBBS student comes out to be Rs 98 lakh per course.
"As against this, the annual fee of an MBBS student at AIIMS is Rs 850 per year that includes hostel and tuition fee,'' Dr Gupta told TOI.
What's worse, as an earlier study by the Media Study Group found, over 53% of students who pass out as doctors from AIIMS leave India to work abroad.
Of the 2,129 students who passed out in the first 42 batches of the MBBS programme at AIIMS -- from its inception in 1956 to 1997 -- the study team tracked down 1,477 doctors. Of them, 780 or 52.81% were found to be working abroad.
These stark figures made health minister A Ramadoss plead to students on Wednesday to stay back and work in the country. Addressing the annual AIIMS convocation that saw 376 degrees of which 50 were MBBS degrees being given out, Ramadoss said, "Please stay put in India. This country needs you very badly. You are the best in the world and your country faces an acute shortage of quality doctors.''
Even convocation chief guest Dr R K Pachauri echoed the same view. "If you (students) are looking at spiritual or professional satisfaction, then serving your own people in your own country, where you are needed the most, is the greatest gift you can get. The challenge is here and you will not regret the decision,'' Dr Pachauri said.
Dr Gupta had a solution to curb such brain drain. "Medical students who graduate from the Armed Forces Medical College in Pune have to serve in the Army for a minimum of five years or else they pay Rs 15 lakh to be allowed to practise in the private sector. AIIMS too should think of imposing such a clause where students have to sign a bond agreeing to work in India for a certain period of time after graduating from the institute,'' Dr Gupta said.
A recent Planning Commission report said India is short of six lakh doctors, 10 lakh nurses and two lakh dental surgeons. Indian doctors, however, form 5% of the medical workforce in developed countries. Almost 60,000 Indian physicians are working in countries like US, UK, Canada and Australia alone.
India has a dismal patient-doctor ratio. For every 10,000 Indians, there is only one doctor. In contrast, Australia has 249 doctors for every 10,000 people, Canada has 209, UK has 166 and US has 548.
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